What are we going to do!!!!

[MASS]

Obama.... has declared that his religion has an important place in politics - but apparently only on his terms and in the way he wants. As has become common with the so-called "Religious Left," religion used the way he wants is good; religion used differently is not. According to Barack Obama, religious faith must be used to "tackle moral and religious problems" but not "divide the nation." Obama said that too often religious leaders use faith to "exploit what divides us" by saying that the only issues that matter are abortion, gay marriage, school prayer, and intelligent design. (Everyone in this room knows that's not true) Since when have "moral and religious problems" not divided the nation?

Bidens catholic--- against abortion? are not their priests involved in all kinds of sexual child abuse? Don't they do all kinds of crazy things like bury saint christopher medals in their yards so their houses are blessed by God? Don't they put ashes on their foreheads? Don't they believe that mother Mary is somehow a sort of holy diety as important as Jesus Himself? that's wierd huh? am i wrong here? Or am i wrong because Joe Biden doesn't REALLY buy into all that religious mumbo jumbo? He just fakin it to get the religious folks votes, and which is more of a abomination?

McCain says that "the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation." He also states that "I admire the Islam" (the Islam?), but that he would prefer a President "who has a solid grounding in my faith." Presumably, he is referring to his faith generally as Christianity, and not specifically to the Episcopalian Church in which he was raised, nor the Southern Baptist Convention, of which his current church.(he does not pray for personal success, and that he believes in the separation of church and state.)yeah right!

Sarah Palin a conservative evangelical Christian? Or is she something quite a bit more exotic than that? It's an important question, because she herself has suggested she holds some peculiar beliefs that could affect the way she executes her duties as a public official. So what are Palin's own beliefs?How long does the McCain campaign plan on keeping Sarah Palin under wraps? When is she going to answer legitimate questions about her career, her qualifications and her beliefs?


And what of the independents? What are we to do? how will you vote this november?and then what do you think will really happen after the ballots are counted?

[Nattjenta]

Not sure what you're trying to say here Mass. Looks like you've pulled the worst out of every candidate. Obama believes that religion is a personal matter, and should not dictate what our country does or how our country handles it's problems. I agree with that. Obama is a Christian, I am not. But I still respect him as a wonderful PERSON who has worked his whole life to help others.

You can take tidbits out of the speeches of any of the candidates (and you did) and try to make them look biased in some way. I'm hoping that was just for the sake of discussion. I'd really hate to think that my country would force me to adhere to the religious interpretation or beliefs of ANYONE who has been voted into the highest office of America. I have really resented the past 8 years. I really resent when any one's religion is forced down my throat, and used to make decisions that affect each and every one of our lives.

Voting for 3rd party candidates may sound virtuous, but can can also upset the wagon so badly that the candidate who receives the most votes doesn't even win the election! (I'm still crying over 2000, and the Supreme Court's horrible decision to award the election to George Bush despite the fact that he didn't actually win). Imagine what this country would be like if that had not happened.

In a perfect world, each candidate would have the exact same coffers of funds and the exact same opportunity of advertisement and news coverage. But we live in a free country and we sometimes have to pay a high price for that. We can donate to the candidate of our choice. We can participate in the rallies, wear the t-shirts, speak our opinions. The bottom line here in America is that we all get to vote for the candidate we feel will most closely represent us to the world in the manner in which we want to be represented. The candidate we feel will be the best leader, the most fair, honest, intelligent, etc.

I'm sure I will be trashed by my comment here. I haven't had the time to do much reading and participating here lately. I like and respect many of you, and am happy to call some of you my friends. But sometimes it's hard to remain rational and polite when so much is at stake. My goal is not to offend, nor to force anyone to believe as I do, nor to change the mind of anyone in their political choices. But I so resent the inflammatory tone of some of the comments here and elsewhere. The accusations, the lies intended to mislead. So when I read this I just had to speak my mind. I really appreciate those of you who are able to share your beliefs in a kind and rational manner.

I am an independent pagan for Obama. GO OBAMA!!!

Jenta

[MASS]

Merry meet All, im an american and what seperates me from other americans is my path and my religious convictions. it would be too hard to list all of the platform issues that are at hand. But I also am at a loss of my choices. that is why i asked others oppinions of the way to vote and what do they feel about the repercussions of the actions that we are to envoke upon ourselves and our country. So please , i did not try to pick out anything, just the issues that we are faced with. there seems to be no relief for the Pagan communities for any which way we go. I'm merely looking for the lesser of two evils is all.....I very much appreciate your in-put ...........BB.....MASS

Nattjenta said:

Not sure what you're trying to say here Mass. Looks like you've pulled the worst out of every candidate. Obama believes that religion is a personal matter, and should not dictate what our country does or how our country handles it's problems. I agree with that. Obama is a Christian, I am not. But I still respect him as a wonderful PERSON who has worked his whole life to help others.

You can take tidbits out of the speeches of any of the candidates (and you did) and try to make them look biased in some way. I'm hoping that was just for the sake of discussion. I'd really hate to think that my country would force me to adhere to the religious interpretation or beliefs of ANYONE who has been voted into the highest office of America. I have really resented the past 8 years. I really resent when any one's religion is forced down my throat, and used to make decisions that affect each and every one of our lives.

Voting for 3rd party candidates may sound virtuous, but can can also upset the wagon so badly that the candidate who receives the most votes doesn't even win the election! (I'm still crying over 2000, and the Supreme Court's horrible decision to award the election to George Bush despite the fact that he didn't actually win). Imagine what this country would be like if that had not happened.

In a perfect world, each candidate would have the exact same coffers of funds and the exact same opportunity of advertisement and news coverage. But we live in a free country and we sometimes have to pay a high price for that. We can donate to the candidate of our choice. We can participate in the rallies, wear the t-shirts, speak our opinions. The bottom line here in America is that we all get to vote for the candidate we feel will most closely represent us to the world in the manner in which we want to be represented. The candidate we feel will be the best leader, the most fair, honest, intelligent, etc.

I'm sure I will be trashed by my comment here. I haven't had the time to do much reading and participating here lately. I like and respect many of you, and am happy to call some of you my friends. But sometimes it's hard to remain rational and polite when so much is at stake. My goal is not to offend, nor to force anyone to believe as I do, nor to change the mind of anyone in their political choices. But I so resent the inflammatory tone of some of the comments here and elsewhere. The accusations, the lies intended to mislead. So when I read this I just had to speak my mind. I really appreciate those of you who are able to share your beliefs in a kind and rational manner.

I am an independent pagan for Obama. GO OBAMA!!!

Jenta

[Rain]

I don't see anything wrong with the issues brought up in the first paragraph. Obama says faith is important and has never said or hinted or imp-lied that his faith is the only one that is important. He says that faith can help us tackle moral issues. Well, this is true. Look at martin Luther King and the civil rights movement. Take Obama's faith-based initiative. He wants to encourage Christians to see other issues as moral - issues like the environment and poverty, not just gay marriage and abortion. All of these things are a positive step.

And as for his faith-based initiative, it is a good idea to give money to charities that actually help people - even if those charities happen to be religious-based. AS LONG as they do not use federal money to prostelatize of discriminate in their hiring process. There are the provisions Obama has set. This is a difficult issue, and I see the benefit of his proposal, though I also think it would be noce if we didn't have to give any federal money to faith-based groups. However, if they obey the rules and are helping people, that is what matters more.

Biden is not faking it. He grew up in Pennsylvania and since I live here I can attest that catholicism is alive and well here. And catholic religious practices surely are no more stranger than pagan practices? We draw the pentagram on each others' foreheads in circle with holy water, do we not? And we do spells that require things to be buried in the ground for various purposes. And Biden does support abortion rights, like Kerry, also a catholic, does.

McCain scares me. Palin scares me even more, seeing as she was blessed against witches and all.

Obama was raised in a nonreligious household and chose Christianity in his 20s when working with church groups who were involved in helping the poor in Chicago. Taking this into account, it is understandable why he would suport a faith-based initiative.

I will be voting Obama. I truly believe he respects personal privacy and freedoms and will not impose his beliefs on us. McCain/Palin most certainly will.

[Celticlass]

Dance around the balefire like a mad woman and hope they all disappear and we get back to the clans!

[Eclecta Thunderstorm]

Sigh... plus ça change, plus c'est pareil. (The more things change, the more they stay the same.) Same problems, different players in Canada also.

[Morganna]

Nothing will change no matter who gets in, one thing we have all forgotten, is that WE THE PEOPLE, have more power then all of them, WE THE PEOPLE, just forgot how to use it, in order for change WE THE PEOPLE, need to stand as one, and demand change, demand that the men, who ran this country into the ground, pay back the loan, to bail them out, not take a 400k vaction, or got hunting, to the tune of 89k, time to put up or shut up, thats what WE THE PEOPLE , should demand, more of us then them, on nov 4th what would they do if no one voted, if everyone, said enough, Omba to me is a sleeper cell, i dont trust him, McCain is a pupet, Palian, is a witch hater, we need a leader who leads, not one that can double talk, and point fingers, its time for ACTION, where is Colin Powell, id vote for him,

[Rain]

Powell endorsed Obama.

Morganna said:

Nothing will change no matter who gets in, one thing we have all forgotten, is that WE THE PEOPLE, have more power then all of them, WE THE PEOPLE, just forgot how to use it, in order for change WE THE PEOPLE, need to stand as one, and demand change, demand that the men, who ran this country into the ground, pay back the loan, to bail them out, not take a 400k vaction, or got hunting, to the tune of 89k, time to put up or shut up, thats what WE THE PEOPLE , should demand, more of us then them, on nov 4th what would they do if no one voted, if everyone, said enough, Omba to me is a sleeper cell, i dont trust him, McCain is a pupet, Palian, is a witch hater, we need a leader who leads, not one that can double talk, and point fingers, its time for ACTION, where is Colin Powell, id vote for him,

[KYBELEGREYWOLF]

Personally, I don't like either one of the canidates. I DEFINITELY dont want to see Sarah Palin get in the White House because she is a witch hater. I'm sure none of us wishes to see the Burning Times repeated. the electoral college is what really supposedly decides who our next president is going to be which makes me feel the choice has already been chosen no matter how we vote. Just like when Bush got in but did not win. The elites who really run this country know who they want in office and will do what ever to put that person in office. This election is probably going to be one of the most important elections this country has ever had because "we the people" are disgusted with whats happened over the last 8 yrs. and are demanding some kind of major change. I'm voting early so there is a paper trail. who for? Maybe OBAMA maybe Ralph Nader He's ran in every election for many yrs. I know I'm NOT voting for MCCAIN. Anyway, I think the Pagan community needs to seriously get together
as a whole and put a Pagan in office. A gay Pagan maybe. Someone who is 100% for us. Just my opinion folks.
Blessed be! Kybelegreywolf

[Chuck]

Nothing Changes if nothing changes

[Nattjenta]

I thought that it was very powerful when Colin Powell endorsed Obama. I have much respect for Powell. A knowledgeable man, a good person, with common sense and more intelligence than anyone else Washington has seen in a long time.
So now what happens? Powell gets bashed by the "religious" right for choosing a man of his own race. It all makes me sick. If McCain gets elected by some fluke, I think I will go more crazy than I already am. I don't care what religion anyone claims to be, it has no place in politics. That was the whole point of freedom of religion wasn't it?