Are Satanists a part of the "Pagan community" ?

[MASS]

The most significant dividing line between Satanism and Paganism is that many Pagans don't believe in Satan. More significant than mere "disbelief," many Pagans have never bothered to look below the surface of the Christian view of Satan as "the Evil One". Even if they were to examine the Christian idea of "Evil" , and even if they were to realize the absurdity of believing in just about every god, in just about every religion, in the entire world why would the sole exception be of Satan? This being a fundamental inconsistency in the Pagans' own theology, as most still would have no desire to revere Satan, even if they did have a belief.

There do exist some people who identify as both Satanist and Pagan and there are quite a few Pagans who are not Satanist at all but who have an even stronger dislike of the typical Pagan public ritual than many Satanists do. There is even a whole large category of Pagans who emphatically reject the ceremonial magick-derived format of the typical Pagan public ritual, in favor of rituals more closely resembling what's described in the actual lore of some particular ancient culture(s).

Have you ever been asked, "Do you worship Satan? It's because many call themselves "pagan" for sheer lack of any better label. If Satanist were to start an "unlabeled spirituality" community/movement for people who don't fit in with any defined religious category. It would refer to a much more specific group of people who would have an unlabeled form of spirituality and I can guarantee you that the next question out of most people's mouths won't be, "Do you worship Satan" ? An "unlabeled spirituality" movement is not likely to attract the attention of very many except Satanists, Athiests, Agnostics...etc.

I think that the word "Pagan" should be allowed to become the exclusive property of "Pagans" , who have an ancient attachment to the word and thus are unlikely to give it up no matter what. At least Pagans can define the word "Pagan" in a positive sense and can find ways to distinguish themselves from others without having to annoy others with stupid questions of their faith(s). But my question still stands...Are Satanists a part of the "Pagan community" ?......BB.....MASS

("Dragonspace has always maintained tolerance to all members of every community. Without oppression, to practice freedom of belief as you wish, to associate with others while expressing your beliefs, and explain them to others, to maintain religious freedom(s) to people of all religious traditions, even though you probably disagree with their beliefs and/or practices. Having tolerance toward another religion does not require you to endorse that faith group's beliefs; it simply indicates your respect for its right to exist and for its members to hold different beliefs without being being discriminated against."....Respectfully...MASS)

[El Bee Kanobe]

This has been a debate that has been going on now for a lot of years. I don't think it will easily be resolved. I have an opinion on this but I doubt what I think will make any difference. However, the short answer is NO i do not think of Satanist as Pagans. I think of them as Abrahamites. Satan is a God of the Abrahamian pantheon of Gods and Goddesses. He is one of the deities that gives it balance, it's polarity. I have a very difficult time thinking the followers of any of the Abrahamian Gods or Goddesses as being Pagan.

Over the years, I have found that there are at least thirteen different definitions of the word Pagan. I subscribe to only one of them. In my world, Pagans are the followers of any of the religions and the variations of those religions and the attempted reconstruction of any of those religions as well as any new religion which is based on any old religion of the Pre-Christian Roman Empire. That really narrows it down and doesn't include Satanist. It also doesn't include any Oriental religion, Native American religion or any other religion which does not self identify as being Pagan.

To be Pagan, I believe one must first self identify as Pagan. That in itself doesn't make a person Pagan but it should be the main standard we use. For someone to call himself a Satanist Pagan is as convoluted as someone claiming to be a Christo Pagan. I don't care what kind of rationale some folks might use to justify calling themselves Satanist Pagans, it just doesn't work for me.

We can show tolerance for Satanist the same way we show tolerance for Christians, however, respect is something else all together. I cannot muster a lot of respect for them. Their world view is often very different from Pagans. They are self centered, selfish and very humanistic. The very things that Pagans strive to overcome, Satanist embrace.

[vyvyan ogma wyverne]

it's an interesting question. perhaps it depends on who you mean by satan. if you believe that satan is another word for the egyptian god set, or seti, as i do, then the ancient origin of these names is a word meaning south. elaine pagels' famous study of satan (her book was called 'the origin of satan', and was published late last century) corroberates this to some extent, in that she finds earlier references to a satan who is not regarded as evil. the tendency to regard satan as evil seems to have increased as political tensions increased between the european church and the peoples south of the mediterranean, culminating with the expulsion of the moors from spain during the middle ages. magically speaking, it could be harmful to regard satan as evil. if satan means southern, as i'm sure it does, it would be slanderous and bad magic to declare an unknown entity evil. the peoples/magic/potencies of the south are obviously not more evil than that of the peoples/magic, potencies of anywhere else. what do others think?

[Akingu/9]

14! 93! X!

No. They are a monotheistic entity and have no goals that are associates with Pagan/Heathen religions. Most Satanists that I have met are a sorry excuse for students of the Occult.
just my .02 worth.

DD

[Aine]

Satanist are as many and varied as those who claim to live under the umbrella of Paganism. And so it should be. Satanists have evolved since first making themselves known and most are wise, cultured and learned. There are of course who just like the outfits and the dark music. Some of which will find their feet and grow whilst others will become accountants and move to the suburbs, or not, as the case may be. But again there are those whose spiritual path is just as deserving as our own.
I, myself do not like the word 'tolerate' and find it quite offensive and a put down, always reminds me of looking down ones nose at others.
For me there are just as many Satanists that could consider themselves Pagan as there are of other paths who deem themselves so.